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Post by relay on Nov 27, 2006 20:58:56 GMT -5
why would the bible also talk so much about doubt? If Jesus wanted he could have punished Thomas but he let Thomas feel his wound... Thomas didn't believe the other disciples, as I said in the other thread. But what did Jesus say? He said "You have seen and believe, blessed are those who have not seen, yet believe." That tells me that you need to have some faith that Jesus is the resurrected savior of the world, without seeing Him. There is a quote from C.S. Lewis: "It is useless to say that you choose to lie down, when it has become impossible to stand." That means Jesus hasn't returned yet because our time in this world is our chance to believe, because there is a time when we will have no choice but to believe, but then it will be too late to choose a side.
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Post by mobyrox on Nov 28, 2006 16:04:11 GMT -5
So be Muslim. Ok, this is an honest question. You have said, that you think people of all faiths will be in Heaven. So why do you align yourself with Christianity? If faith in Jesus is not the only way, why do you choose to be a Christian? there are many beliefs and if you believe in God, you must choose one. Or if you don't at least have your own personal belief. I do believe in Jesus. I don't think that it's so necessarily cut and dried as you say that either Christ was God or he's crazy. The Jews and other religions see Christ as a prophet just like any of the other prophets. There is definite evidence to the fact that Christ existed. Christ wanted us to love each other and do good. Nothing wrong with that. My uncle said Christ never claimed to be God. Saying "I am the way,..." is not the same as saying I am God incarnate. If that's what Jesus intended to say he would have just said it. Instead what I understand him to be saying there is that my ways are the ways of God and this is how to live and to live more abundantly. Faith, Hope, and Love and the greatest of these is love.
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Post by relay on Nov 28, 2006 16:14:55 GMT -5
Jesus said "I AM" to the Sanhedrin. If you really want to see the truth, then start by finding. out what that means to a Jew in that time period. Don't take my word for it, do some research. He absolutely said He was God, and He did 'just say it". That is fact, not a judgment.
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Post by mobyrox on Nov 28, 2006 16:20:12 GMT -5
i am afraid that we will have to disagree relay. there are many religions and they all have certainty that they are correct, they call it faith too....
i'm not muslim because that's not what i choose to follow. I would like to learn about some of the other religions and introducing some of their aspects into my life.
You can not argue past the other religions claiming that their view is equally right. Some of these religions pre-date Christianity.
If God is good and Christ is good then people of all faiths faithfulness will be rewarded and those who do not believe will be saved by grace, if there is no grace there will be no salvation.
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Post by relay on Nov 28, 2006 18:20:14 GMT -5
Grace is a gift. But you don't get the benefit of a gift unless you receive it. You have to take a present and open it. Right?
I know we will probably have to disagree. But also, some of the things you say really puzzle me. That's why I try to back my opinion up, and see how you answer to show me how you can think some of these things. Like just now, you said there are older religions than Christianity. I'm not sure what point that makes. Of course there are. There couldn't be Christianity until the savior, Christ, came was crucified and resurrected.
There are religions that claim to be Christian like JF said. And what they do is change the meaning of what Jesus said. For example, Jesus was only saying He was 'of' God. Jesus tells the religious leaders "i AM", which is the same thing God told Moses when Moses asked who he should say sent him. Look for yourself, see what "I AM" meant to those He said it to, and then decide who Jesus claimed to be. That's all I'm asking.
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Post by mobyrox on Dec 5, 2006 14:05:08 GMT -5
Grace is recieved whether we acknowledge it or not. Don't the baptists even have a term called prevenient grace? Which is not exactly what I'm talking about. I'm talking about an ever-loving, all encompassing grace.
As for the rest, I may not be expressing myself right. Maybe I'm not using the right words or whatever, but a lot rests on my belief that the bible is not a perfect book and there are a lot of things in there that not only are not Godly but are harmful.
I do believe in God. I believe that people of other religions and other beliefs are following this God as well. We may not all use the same words or names but this God is an all powerful loving God that does not want to destroy us in a pit of fire (or however you define Hell) but wants us to have a relationship with him/her/it.
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